Conversations with Geoff: Perhaps Presumptious Assumptions about Atheism

Day 74
Kuilapalayam, India
Perhaps is it necessary to say that I see neither the atheist or non-atheist way of life or perspective as right or wrong. I don’t judge anyone’s beliefs or “what makes sense” to them to be better or worse than what I believe. These are just a few observations that I wanted to share and remember for a future point. The exciting and new addition to the blog will be that our competent resident friend who just so happens to be atheist will begin answering questions and sharing his side of this topic.

I believe the world needs dissent to move on, to progress. Since the beginning of time, or relative time of our existence, we have needed some form of dissent or obstacle to help us either work together or “chisel our own stones” as I like to say, that is to say we actually want something to work hard for and towards. Both religion and atheism have fulfilled this prerequisite over time.

If the entire world were to have “spiritually awakened” say 2,000 years ago then we would not have developed many of the things that we have now. It is as if the “spirituality” took a break and let “materialism” do what it wanted for the last four or five hundred years (or longer) in order to get us two things: completely interconnected humanly wise, in person and/or internet, and to build a system where we can create nearly anything that we can imagine, which is where we are technologically at. Perhaps the world had to be a greedy and ruthless place for this process to occur as quickly as it has, any other way would not have been as effective. Now when “spirituality” comes back into the equation, we enter a new possibility of happiness, which is only achievable if this temporary “relax” by spirituality is given for man to materially build himself to the level we are now at. 

In my opinion, the religions have purposefully and perfectly deceived people, whether consciously or unconsciously, individually or collectively, since the beginning of their existences. The religions were never made to fully lead its adherents to the final goal. We would never have wanted it that easy. Religion have been a two-bladed sword throughout history slightly guiding, but also deceiving the world until now, and they have done it perfectly and handled brilliantly, even though it is hard for most of us to believe. We should clap for what they have done, the good and the bad, for it has led us to this exact moment.

Certainly, religion is flawed today and it has lost some essential characteristics of why it came about in the first place. My teacher used to make a great metaphor about religion: religion is like a clay pot and the nectar (spirituality) has seeped through the cracks. It’s now a hollow shell of what it once was and why they were established. This does not mean the nectar cannot be re-added. I believe it will. It is easy to see why atheist are so adamantly anti-religious when we see the problems associated with the various religions today.  

If one believe they are unhelpable or unchangeable then perhaps yes it would be better to do away with them all together. But if they are adaptable or moldable then they will always have a very important role to play, one way or the other. There is little to no room for adaptability in atheism. It is an absolute belief. Either “with us or against us” is a precursor for current atheism. It is at the furthest point of the spectrum, and any movement would invalidate what it proposes and tries to do.

A few assumptions that a non-atheist and atheist might believe:

A belief in God (non-atheist)

1.) A belief of something beyond what we can materially see and/or potentially comprehend.

2.) A reason for us to be here, rather than no reason for our existence. 

3.) Universal rules that govern our world and keep things in check. 

A true blue atheist might perhaps say:

1.) There is nothing beyond what we can see or comprehend.

2.) There is no reason for us to be here.

3.) There are no universal rules or repercussions for my actions beyond this life.

I contend that there is something inherent within us that naturally believes there are repercussions for our actions, whereas the opposite is more of a manufactured belief or theory that must be engrained upon someone externally, and usually at a young age.

Furthermore, the proof of the existence of something beyond our immediate comprehension is greater than the proof of the opposite, and if we talk purely in scientific terms, the theories would perhaps be equally unprovable. Proof for an alternate existence or reality can only be obtained from the collection of individual “spiritual” experiences, synchronizing, displayed in word, thought, action, and belief. It should be noted that these similar experiences are from across the world, throughout history and even without immediate contact. 

These similar life-changing experiences came to people across the earth over thousands of years and regardless of proximity. This is a recognizable regularity that can be verified whereas the belief or theory of atheism has no real such history, except the sheer theorized belief that there is no God.

Atheism is much more of a “belief” because there is no possibility for individual experience of “godlessness”. It is much more speculative and even “science-driven”, but there can be no direct evidence or proof accepted by atheists, because if there were, it would cause them to be no longer atheist and so invalid to what they expound. It is a contrived and speculative belief with bouts of fervor throughout history, but perhaps unsustainable once certain knowledge is released or certain events happen.. On the other hand, It is a good contender and dissenter for the “show” to progress and move forward.

What would a full atheist world look and feel like? Would it even be feasible that this could exist? I feel that there is a long term goal or plan of some that complete godlessness will lead us somehow to a happier or better time than a world with spirituality and a belief of God. The idea that religion will be completely gone in sometime in the future is also a little far-fetched, just as much as the idea that atheism will be gone anytime soon in the future. I contend that the belief in God or the beyond have been around for much longer then atheism, which is just as contrived as a religion or belief in God, whereas many atheists might suggest atheism is the default of our belief system. Atheists tend to believe that atheism is the default belief that we started off with at the beginning of mans evolution. This is speculative and would be impossible for us to perfectly prove. The debate could go many ways on what came first, a belief in God or a belief in no God.

I believe religion has always been adaptable so why would it be any different now? The past 2,000 years could easily be made a case as the millenniums of religion, sprouting so many wonderful sets of beliefs, some similar, some unique. Although there are many problems, the world altogether is not such a bad place to live. It can and will be better, but a purely atheist world would perhaps not even have made it this far. 

Overall, I tend to believe that if everyone lived with the idea there were no repercussions for any actions, in this world or the next, in whatever faith, the world would be in Chaos. I believe there are inherent beliefs that there are repercussions for our actions either in this life or the next, but that the opposite belief was contrived and spread. No matter how hard I try to think that there is no reason for us to be here, I can’t. One day, perhaps soon, we will live in a world where there is no longer a worry about repercussions, but until then it is an important aspect of our history. If this was the norm, perhaps we would have not made it to this point in history.

List of daily expenses and donations between June 20th and June 26th 2015:

Total spent on food: $10.08

Room: $2.37

Random: $1.50

Total: $13.95
Total: $408.29 + 13.95 = 422.24 divided by 73 days = $5.78 per day
Donation to Eco-Village building project = $3.15
Total = $3.15 + $1145.97 = 1149.97 divided by 73 days = $15 per day
Expense account = $240.99 – 13.95 = 227.04 (Avg. $5.78 per day will last 39 more days)

Donations account = $3.61 – 3.15 = .46 (Avg $15.74 per day will last 0 more days)

Published by

This American Sadhu

Wandering traveler, writing a story, contemplating spiritual stuff, living austere, and helping random strangers... all rolled into ONE. What fun!

One thought on “Conversations with Geoff: Perhaps Presumptious Assumptions about Atheism”

  1. Repercussions of our actions or karma is simply cause and effect. To the extent that anyone does not “believe” in such a principle, they are irrational; no matter the labelism they espouse. At the same time, religion is, as you note, completely malleable by people, whether individually or collectively. There seems to me to be a larger element of political or social manipulation in the articles of faith of most cultures — cult-ures — than of the directly experiential. In fact the experience of mere individuals is very often the object of collective suspicion by the orthodox believers in sacrosanct cultures and religions. This leads to the phenomenon of martyrdom of saints, whose teachings if not successfully buried with them — ‘the good that they do being interred with their bones’ — are enshrined in the same culture which opposed them. So we have a Christian nation in the USA, built upon the slaughter of an entire continent of indigenous peoples and the ecosystem which once supported those tribes. That this is contrary to the message of love which was Christ’s only commandment seems to be a fact submerged, somehow, beneath the consciousness of believers. And this is no accident. It is by design. Brought about through mind-controlling features of ritual connected with bloody torture and blood-drinking. The disconnect between the Spirit of Christ and the trauma of rituals is a central feature of the psychology of mind control exercised on a mass scale. No pun intended, but it is hard to miss.

    Such is culture. To the extent that the Spirit of Christ, his Shaktipat, his transmission of direct consciousness to the individual person is sought and discovered, the resulting change of mind puts such an individual at odds with both the culture and its ostensible religion. It is quite a strange phenomenon from any perspective!

    Thank you for your thoughtful post.

    Liked by 1 person

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: Logo

You are commenting using your account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s